[Name Removed], you make an excellent point. How awesome that your son had the courage to tell the officer that the gun in his face was making him uncomfortable! It occurred to me after reading your comment, that you hit a very important point. The whole philosophy and culture of CFS, what makes it so valuable to parents and children there, past and present, is that it's all about growing children to be authentic and respectable/respectful. People who live by that paradigm and raise their children that way, or run a school that way, do so in order for their kids to be stronger in character and more courageous so they DON'T become victims. They don't then turn around and molest the kids! You either raise kids to be victims, intentionally or unintentionally, or you take the higher road and specifically teach them otherwise.
I can't help but find it almost funny that those who don't really understand the value of the school, probably were pretty surprised when so many parents didn't just immediately believe the molestation allegations, and instead, supported Bob and the school. It's certainly not because the parents are half-wits as some would like everyone to believe, it's because they recognize that higher road of education, respect, and decency. Most people probably have never even experienced such a thing at their child's school. I know I hadn't before I found CFS for my kids. And it's certainly taken a lot of hard work for the City and DA to scrape up enough recruited victims to keep this farce going, and the only question left is why?
I think now is an excellent time for each and every parent, parent of previous students, previous students themselves, and concerned citizens to write to the governor and media as [PSP] suggested in her post below. It's time for the State and media to thoroughly investigate those who have blatantly violated an exceptional and dedicated educator, human being, and family man, his family, his school, and all the staff, students, and parents, and to hold them accountable for their actions before this goes any further. California can not afford to spend a fortune on a manufactured molestation claims trial, nor can it afford to lose the value of the progress CFS has made in child education.
The statement, "You either raise kids to be victims, intentionally or unintentionally, or you take the higher road and specifically teach them otherwise." disgusts me. What a horrible thing to say. So it is the fault of Jaycee Dugard's parents that she was kidnapped at age 11 and held for years by her captor? According to BG, her parents raised her that way. I suppose they failed to "take the higher road and specifically teach [her] otherwise." Perhaps if she had attended Creative Frontiers and was subjected to the "philosophy and culture of CFS" so that she could grow up "authentic and respectable/respectful" It wouldn't have happened. What about Lacey Petersen and her unborn child? Did her parents make her a victim as well? According to BG, if they had attended CFS they would have been "stronger in character and more courageous so they DON'T become victims" Ugh.
As you will see in several posts we will be sharing with you in upcoming days, there have been MANY cases where a man accused of molestation has had an outpouring of public support prior to being convicted or even admitting to molestation and sexual abuse charges. I wasn't "pretty surprised when so many parents didn't just immediately believe the molestation allegations, and instead, supported Bob and the school" when the allegations came out. I've seen it before. Of course no one wants to believe this about someone they trusted with their children. I didn't think they were "half-wits" although I question the involvement of children attending rallies and being more involved than small children should be in such a tumultuous situation. There are many ways to publicly support your loved one without throwing around blame willy-nilly at everyone involved and without involving your young children.
I don't understand why some of these supporters refuse to believe that the investigators and district attorneys ARE acting as they are supposed to. "Investigate those who have blatantly violated" Mr. Adams? How? By conducting interviews and determining if claims of molestation were true or not? By all means, if at the end of the day if is shown that the allegations were fabricated, I sincerely hope someone gets to the bottom of it, but until then, it is Mr. Adams who has charges pending....not the media, the police, or the DA. Yet again, there is no reason to insist that the allegations are fabricated. They are different and specific and definitely warrant investigation, which is what the police are trying to do right now.
One thing I feel is important to note is that BG hasn't had children at the school for 15 years. In addition, they were only there for ONE year. In this SacBee article, she states:
My own [children- identifier removed] were only at CFS for 5th gradeI'm glad she enjoyed the school for the year that she had children attending 15 or more years ago, but how does this make her an expert on Mr. Adams' credibility? His expert teaching methods? His innocence? If you read on comment down from hers there is another parent who was a "current and longtime" CFS parent who finds the actions on the CFS Facebook page as "disheartening".
Just when you think she can't say anything more outrageous and uncalled for, BG goes on to post Thursday:
Something else to ponder: There was no reason whatsoever for the police to be "instructing" parents to be doing anything. The cops had no business getting in-between the children and their parents at all, and if it was their intent to truly be mindful of the best interests of the children, this whole thing would have been handled much more calmly and with more maturity for the sake of the kids.
Kids in a relatively stable home will show signs if there's abuse going on in school or elsewhere. Parents who are tuned in to their kids will notice something's not quite right. With a little patience and lots of love, kids will tell someone they trust that something happened to them when THEY are ready. All of this manipulation and second guessing is a load of crap, and very dangerous, as we're starting to see in these stories about how the kids are handling all this now.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This isn't about protecting the kids. This is about using them to create a fiasco for another agenda. That's something worth pondering if you care about children.
But if you don't, then carry on with the freak show...
Yes BG, there WAS reason for the police to be "instructing" parents to do things. Their children's school had just been shut down because of some very serious allegations. Parents needed to know what to do. Many were confused, upset, and worried that something may have happened to their child as well. The police instructed parents NOT to interview their own children. This is not victim recruitment. This is allowing the interviews to take place with people who are trained to interview the children. The sessions are videotaped. Why? So that it can be used as evidence. This is for the benefit of the potential victim AND the alleged perpetrator. Other than the actual closing of the school, nothing the CHPD has done can be considered anything but professional and appropriate. What ISN'T mature is bashing victims, witnesses, posting witnesses addresses and phone numbers publicly, making farm noises at people, coming up with conspiracy theories, and telling supporters to prank call the attorney of an alleged victim. All things done by CFS supporters.
Unfortunately just like many kids may not come forward when they are being bullied, many will not come forward to tell about molestation either. Often they are ashamed or scared. This doesn't mean their home is not stable. This doesn't mean their parents have done something wrong. It means that kids don't always tell an adult when something is wrong. Often seeing that there are other victims that have come forward gives them some power and courage that lets them open up. This isn't victim recruitment either. The National Child Traumatic Stress Network lists many reasons a child might not tell an adult right away. In addition, regarding parents picking up on the signals that something is wrong with their child the phrase, 'when you hear hoof beats, you think horses not zebras' comes to mind. If a child is acting differently, a parent is going to go with the easiest, least traumatic explanation first. What parent looks at Johnny not eating his breakfast this morning and assumes his football coach has been molesting him? None. You will go through every other explanation first. Must have the flu, extra schoolwork, new baby sister...not 'He isn't eating, I bet he was molested!' The world is not so cut and dry. Often kids exhibit behavior changes, but many kids go through behavior changes as they grow anyways. This is not a sign of poor parenting. It is proof positive that parenting is a difficult journey. A journey where we try, not always successfully, to make the right choices and decisions for our children.
Despite you saying it more than once BG, there is still no agenda. No one wants the CFS property. The public schools aren't jealous. The District Attorney didn't need another case to prosecute. The Citrus Heights Police Department and the Department of Social Services didn't need to "prove themselves". The alleged victims didn't need a new BMW. I care about kids. I care about potential victims. This is why I don't blame them or the people trying to protect them. If that makes me a freak show, perhaps I should start selling tickets.
The REAL Freak Show begins October 7. I will be watching!!!
ReplyDeleteAs someone that was molested as a young child and then later raped, I take serious offense that I was not strong enough or courageous enough to stop it. I think strength and courage are defined by how our lives are lived after the abuse. Do we curl up in a ball and stop functioning forever or do we seek help and move through the feelings? THAT is what defines strength and courage to me. Being told that we were not strong enough to prevent it puts the blame back on the victim, not on the attacker.
ReplyDeleteMen (or women) that abuse are the ones in the wrong with their actions. Enduring the abuse and thriving despite it is my action.
We children who have been molested sometimes don't tell our parents because we feel this knowledge will hurt our parents and make them sad. We want to suffer alone and not hurt our dear parents who might feel it was their fault.
ReplyDeleteAlso, sometimes we feel we were bad and caused the abuse, so we don't want anyone to know how bad we were.
I was also molested when I was a child. Once by someone I did not know, and over the course of several months by a "family friend" when I was 5 years old. I never told. The family friend is now in prison and I feel SO much guilt that I never told. If I had told I could have prevented what happened to the 8 other girls after me.
ReplyDeleteHis last victim was 8 years old. I could have prevented that if I would have told, but I thought it was my fault and I was ashamed and scared that I would get into trouble if anyone knew. When you are a child being molested/abused, you feel so much shame and fear, it takes the truly courageous to come forward.
I admire those that came forward; those families will be forever changed, those children forever changed, but just imagine IF this is true and he DID molest young girls. Those victims that came forward are no longer victims to me, they are heroes.
Survivor [noun]:
ReplyDelete1. One who remains alive or in existence
2. One who carries on despite hardships or trauma
3. One who remains functional or usable or who perseveres
To survive [verb]:
1. To live longer than; outlive
2. To live, persist, or remain usable through hardship
3. To cope with (a trauma or setback); to persevere
I just want to point out that I talked to the police the day the school was shut down since I couldn't make the meeting I called and spoke to an officer that night. I was told it was ok to discuss things with my child. When I asked how I should approach the subject I was given instructions. I don't think the police or the city have handled things the way the should have. I also believe people on both sides have handled things wrong. If you look at the bee and the school website I've watched both sides attack each other. I've even watched non supporters attack a child for defending her mother. This is about protecting children and I think both sides need to be reminded that no matter what side you are on we need to show each other respect.
ReplyDeleteDiscussing things with your child is very different than being told to interview your child. Perhaps there is a better way the police, city, and the Adams family could have handled things, but you can choose to sit and dwell, or better yourself by learning from it and move on.
ReplyDeleteI've read the Sacramento Bee articles and comments. I saw the comment you are speaking of. This isn't a small child. It was an older teen/adult who came and and launched a full-fledged attack on the people commenting. She didn't show anyone respect, and neither did her mother (she even attacked a fellow CFS supporter openly on the facebook page), and so she got none in return. That being said, I have seen comments on both "sides" cross the line.
Respect is something that is earned from me. As long as CFS supporters continue to attack victims and witnesses, and claim conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, they won't have my respect.
I can respect your views but I still believe a child no matter the age should be given compassion and some understanding. We need to be the example. I believe it would of been better to acknowledge her issue with out the attacks. You also stay that people must earn your respect, but I have tried to teach my child to treat people the way you want to be treated in return your not always going to be given the respect you deserve. I also think that group of people should not be judged by a few.
ReplyDeleteNot respecting someone doesn't mean they aren't being treated fairly. Two separate things. She came out swinging and she was told she was wrong. Perhaps if her mother was so concerned, she shouldn't have allowed her to read and comment. What was said there (the Sacramento Bee) has nothing to do with what is said here. I've read the articles and the comments just like I have read the CFS Facebook page. I can tell you which group is prone to attacking people...and it isn't the people you are pointing the finger at.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the compassion for the children who are named in the Dss report and criminal complaint? The vocal supporters are showing no compassion for any possible victims (they've clearly stated that they have compassion for "real" victims). I have no doubt that many of the 249 members of that page DO have compassion but they seem to be silent. And silence equals agreement with the vitriol being spewed forth, IMO.
I was concerned my memory was failing me so I went back to check those comments made by the person you were speaking of. Attacked? The only two comments made to her on her original post was one that said "The apple didn't fall far" and another in response to that one saying "Seriously!" After that, her mother began commenting on her account. While not necessarily nice, it certainly isn't an attack in my book. Far more benign than what has been said publicly about the potential victims in this case.
ReplyDelete" I still believe a child no matter the age should be given compassion and some understanding."
ReplyDeleteBy that definition, we all deserve compassion and understanding. I can say, Theresa showed NONE of that to me on the CFS FB page. Not one ounce of compassion or understanding. For that matter, I was told I hadn't done enough and "where was [I] every day". Sorry but that thing called work, raising a family and school is more important than sinking time into something that should have already been up to code in the first place. Even if that weren't the case, even IF it were allllllll a big conspiracy against CFS - some compassion and understanding should be given to a person that has already donated time, money and tangible goods. But no, Theresa couldn't do that for me and I will not offer that for her or her adult daughter.
Shannon Panora
Im not trying to say one side is better than the other. After reading your blogs I wanted to voice an opinion on what I see going on from both sides. Do I think it's right to attack or not show the potential victims compassion? No I do believe that this needs to be investigated. I do believe that a child's safety is the most important thing. I don't want to pass judgment on someone until I have all the I believe alot of people including myself have decided not to post on the bee or the schools website because of the attacks. My hope is that even though you may not agree with how I view things or that I may not agree with you that things can be discussed with respect for both sides. Thanks again for posting my opinion. I would hope that this can show that a difference of opinion is ok and can be given without an attack on another
ReplyDeleteShannon I'm sorry you feel that way. I can see where you would be Hurt and upset and I hope you can find forgiveness or some understanding to what the child was seeing. I honestly believe that the child was trying to defend her mother and was also hurt by the things being said about her mother. My understanding is that she is a teenager or a young adult and I think at that age most of us would of defended someone we love. It might of been the wrong way of going about it but our job as adults and as a community is to show children the right path. As a mother I would hope that if my child was in that situation someone would show them some compassion and understanding. You don't have to respect her or her child that is your choice and this is just my opinion and again my hope is that the anger on both sides can be let go and the focus be put back on what is most important the kids
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to say I'm not trying to point the finger at a person or group. I also hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you or anyone. I just wanted to give the opinion on what I have seen and my experience with talking to the police from what you wrote in your blog. I still believe both sides have been wrong in the way they handled things, but that is just my opinion. I'm not trying to change your mind about how you feel. I just wanted to give another side
ReplyDeleteThank you again
I suspect this person, who came late to the party, is once again on the hunt for a reason to be mad. Afterall, she was spearheading the repair efforts and being lied to along with everyone else. Trouble here is, the anger is misdirected! As with the other ones in attack mode, they have lost their power... yet like most bullies, try to confront their insecurities by launching a tirade on those who are bringing us up-to-date, factual information. Tell them to keep their overused and under-appreciated comments away. I have come to expect and appreciate the common sense blogs and responses here. This is not the Sacbee
ReplyDeleteThe goal here is not necessarily to be on the opposing "side" to the CFS supporters, but to readily make available documents and truths that many seem to want to ignore. It is also a place to point out some of the horrible things being said and the inaccurate comparisons being pointed out.
ReplyDeleteTo put it simply, this is not the comment section of the Sacramento Bee and I'm not sure what the opinions there and things said there have to do with things said here. I will allow comments of differing opinions. You don't have to agree with me to comment or read here. But don't let your opinion of something said on Sacramento Bee clump everyone who is not a supporter into the same category. I have had comments from supporters, former supporters, people outright convinced of guilt, and people waiting to pass judgment. I've had victims of molestation and abuse, parents of children who were victimized also visit and comment.
I try not to clump all CFS supporters into one category, but the 249 people on that CFS facebook page are allowing a vocal few to give them a voice. It isn't something I would want to appear to be a part of. By saying nothing, you infer agreement to the horrific things being said.
Do you really feel anything written by Doubting CFS has been disrespectful? I don't.
Congratulations for holding yourself to a higher standard. Those who criticize appear to be full of fear and loathing.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your commitment to reporting the truth and alerting us to other similar cases and how they share parallel points.
I am one, who is waiting to see what happens. I am not pointing fingers as to guilt or not, but know anyone who does so with absolute certainty is very disillusioned or psychic.
I believe the victims should be shown the utmost respect for coming forward. They knew at the onset, that this would throw them into a firestorm of negative publicity. Even their friends and family now see them in a different light, yet they are willing to take back their power and rise above the negativity. I want those survivors to know that either way.. no matter how this case turns out, I believe them, I believe in them and I support them in every way!
Phoenix
Thank you Phoenix. No one here knows for certain if Mr. Adams is guilty or not. The only people who know that are Mr. Adams himself and any potential victims. I DO know that many of the things done by supporters are NOT okay in my book. You can support your loved one without hurting others.
ReplyDeleteAll of the children named in the arrest report were (or still are) children at the time they came forward. The teachers came forward KNOWING their names would be announced publicly. It wasn't a half-hearted attempt to hurt Mr. Adams. They shouldn't be treated the way they have been.
The comparisons are only offered as proof that this DOES happen. There are teachers well-respected and admired who are accused, defended, and then later convicted or admitted guilt. Certainly all offer a more relevant comparison than McMartin. None confirm Mr. Adams guilt, as his case is it's own.
Thank you for you support of victims and alleged victims. Glad you are enjoying the blog.
Anonymous-
ReplyDeleteI have no issue with Theresa's daughter. My issue is with Theresa and her treatment of me. I did not participate in any type of "bashing" that may have happened to her daughter, nor has her daughter had any contact with me. I have never hid my name or tried to pretend that I am not me.
I think though that there is a whole level of accountability that the CFS group is not willing to own and that is disgusting. I haven't seen anything on this blog that vilifies anyone. It seems to be reporting facts that CFS doesn't want reported. Facts are facts and while they may not paint CFS is a warm fuzzy light, this blog hasn't done that to CFS. CFS did that to CFS.
In terms of sides, did CH PD handle the shut down correctly? I don't know, as a parent, my child was confused that day and I was left to explain it. That would have been the case regardless of how the school was shut down. I think that some people are over exaggerating the impact of that day on their child but that is my opinion. I think the things I have seen people say on the CFS facebook page are disgusting though. Its not coming from a place of a misguided attempt at protecting children. Maybe its coming from being scared of the truth or in denial, I don't know. I know my personal experience as the parent of a child in attendance on July 18. I know my child was not touched inappropriately but I am not naive enough to believe it is impossible that it happened to any child. I sure as hell though would never says they things Barbara and Patricia are saying about the victims and their families.
The only side that should be here is the one of protecting kids and ensuring their safety. And if that isn't the side the folks around you are standing on, you might want to reconsider the company you keep.
I apologize if you feel that I am mad or trying to attack this page. That was not my goal by commenting here. I wanted to give my experience on my conversation with the police and voice what I've seen happen from both sides. It was not intended as an attack on this site. I do like the fact that you have posted documents here for everyone and that you have said several times that you are not just trying to say that Bob is guilty you are trying to give facts and your opinions as you see them. Again my opinion is just that. My opinion it is not meant to attack anyone.
ReplyDeleteYour comments here have not been seen by an attack by me.
ReplyDeleteComparing what was said to an adult daughter of a CFS supporter who launched her own attack on the SacBee site to what has been said on the CFS Facebook site isn't going to fly though. This isn't the SacBee forums and while I have no doubt that many of the same people read and comment, it isn't really applicable here. I'm an adult and if someone said something about my mom I would defend her, but I wouldn't expect those same people to be nice to me just because I was defending her. In contrast the children and alleged witnesses being bashed by CFS supporters have no voice. They can't stick up for themselves. Very different situations.
You are welcome to continue commenting and reading. I am glad you have found the documents useful and I hope you DO continue to read and comment. I appreciate the apology to me/the blog, but it wasn't really necessary. I never felt like you were attacking what was said here. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it differs from mine.
I'm pretty sure Shannon is someone's child too. Shouldn't she have been "given compassion and some understanding"?
ReplyDeleteI was on the other side. I was an active supporter. I used to think that the comments on the SacBee site were just being hateful. I never commented myself, but read the comments. Then Dan started in with his weird obsession with reallyrosy and the pig and sheep noises and I stopped and looked at who I was associating with.
Sorry Anonymous. The stuff said by the supporters of CFS was 100X worse than anything said by the other side. The "attack" on the daughter...sorry I don't feel bad for her or her mother. She shouldn't have joined in if she couldn't take it. Isn't she like 21? Hardly a young kid. If she is old enough to dish it out like a big girl she should be old enough to take it. She certainly did a whole lot more to deserve any negative remarks she was given than Shannon did. All she did was post a question someone else posed on the SacBee website and look at the hate that woman spilled out at her. And no one. NO ONE stood up for her. Not the family, not other supporters, no one. If I had still been a member of the page at that point I would have. Sounded like the daughter was filled with the same negativity and hate as her mother. I won't feel sorry for her and I doubt very many people will. As the blog owner said above, I will save my compassion for the victims in this case. Not for some adult who went on a ranting rampage and got told she was just like her mother.